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“Oh yeah? Well I hate you too!”

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Thought exercises on the topic of pulling mobs and getting them to hate me(pally tank). :)
For the sake of argument I’ll keep it at 5 mobs. (keep in mind I’m a noob pally tank… I’m making this up , thinking it though and it makes sense to me. Comments/criticisms appreciated.)

Assumes Retribution Aura, Improved Righteous Fury, Blessing of Sanctuary.

Easy Peasy Pull (no CC) (could just as easily melee in place)
Five melee mobs with nobody nearby.
Throw Avenger’s shield at biggest baddie (~200 hate from 3 of the mobs, other two just kinda dislike me). Everyone runs towards me. I actually think that #4 and #5 will reach me first since 1-3 are dazed (and I think will therefore run slower). The only thing I can control here is who will be hit first.
Throw up Holy Shield and Consecrate just before they arrive.
Groups should assist on tank and kill them one by one.

Less Easy Peasy(no CC)
Mix of melee and caster mobs.
Throw Avenger’s shield at biggest baddie (or biggest caster) and then break line of sight. Melee mobs should arrive at the tank first followed by casters. Casters will only run until they can see the tank.
Throw up Holy Shield just before they arrive.
Maneuver melee mobs so that you’re close to the casters and throw down a Consecrate.
In the case of equally bad trash I’d kill casters first. Then move onto melee. In this case DPS should assist on tank.
If there’s a really big baddie then DPS should kill casters (and others) then assist with big baddie.

Adding a Sap
Adding a Rogue sap to the mix.
Rogue can only sap when the mob is out of combat. Any damage to the mob “wakes them up”.

Rogue saps one of the baddies. The rest of the baddies are oblivious.
Given my tool set.. my inclination would be to throw [item]Linken’s Boomerang[/item] at one of the non-sapped baddies. So ~150 threat on one baddie. The other 3 just kind of dislike me. All 4 baddies should turn and run at me if they’re melee.. otherwise I need to break line of sight to get the casters to come to me.
I believe Linken’s range is too short for me to get an Avenger’s Shield off… so I’d throw down a consecrate, throw up Holy Shield and melee them. The initial threat here is smaller (since I didn’t get to bounce my shield off of them) but given a couple of blocks, it should be reasonable.

Adding an Ice Trap
Adding a Hunter Ice Trap to the mix.
Hunter can chaintrap if they time it right.. but it works best if the hunter has the aggro. Any damage to the trapped mob breaks the trap.

Hunter places trap at a place where it’s likely for the mob to run (or where the hunter feels he can pull the mob) away from where the tank plans to melee (and thrown down consecrates).

I’m a little uncertain here.

What I’d really like to do is to have all the mobs initially hate the tank. And yet have the potentially trapped mob hate the hunter more.

Ideally I’d like for all the mobs to run towards the tank.. and then have the hunter shoot pull one of the targets into the hunter’s trap. This can by tricky though if the Pally has pulled with Avenger’s Shield. It can be almighty hard to get the aggro of a mob that’s been struck by the shield.

So I guess the answer is either the Hunter DPSes the heck out of one of the mobs the tank isn’t hitting (eventually peeling them off into a trap) or the Hunter targets one of the mobs that didn’t get a bounce.

Another option would be to have the hunter do the initial pull. Hunter shoots one of the mobs pulling all of them across his trap. Pally is behind the trap and throws down a consecrate that doesn’t hit the trap. Hunter runs past the Pally pulling the mobs through the consecrate. All of the mobs except for the one the hunter initially shot should then turn on the pally. Just before the mobs arrive, pally throws up Holy Shield.

Possibilities here:
– Pally is meleeing 3 mobs. 1 mob is trapped and 1 mob is chasing the hunter.

  • Possibility 1: Hunter feigns death. The stray mob should run back to the tank.
  • Possibility 2: Hunter sets pet on stray mob. Ok tactic as long as hunter and pet can kill mob without assistance AND keep the trapped mob trapped.

– Pally is meleeing 4 mobs and 1 mob is trapped. DPS should assist on tank. Hunter should chain trap the trapped mob until DPS is ready to work on that mob

Adding a sheep
Adding a Mage’s sheep to the mix.
Mage can re-sheep. Any damage to the trapped mob breaks the sheep. Mages get really really really annoyed when you break their sheep.

Mage sheeps their target. The 4 other mobs really dislike the mage. Mage runs to Pally (who is out of range of the wandering sheep). Pally throws down a consecrate. Mobs running through consecrate hate the Pally and turn on her. Pally throws up Holy Shield. DPS assists on the tank. Mage re-sheeps as necessary.

That’s all the CC I know. Did I miss anything?

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6 comments to “Oh yeah? Well I hate you too!”

  • Banish/Seduce, Don’t forget about your warlock friends.
    Viper Shot (the sleepy time one)
    Repentance (ret paladins)
    Shackle (You’ll see this in Karazhan a lot)

    I think that about sums up the rest of the CC… unless you want to count a Rogue’s blind in there.

    In short, I’ve noticed hunters are VERY self-reliant. It also depends on specs sometimes. They can always have a pet off-tank a mob too in non-heroics. In general, a Hunter should never be a major concern of yours, at least as far as I’ve noticed. It really depends on the quality of the Hunter you’re bringing, if he’s a BRK or a big noob, it makes a difference.

  • Doh! It’s Wyvern Sting… whatever, you knew what I meant. Wth is Viper Shot? /boggle

  • Nibuca

    Ok.. need a little help here.. how do these other CCs work? I think I saw shackle once.. but I’m not entirely certain. I don’t think I’ve grouped with a Warlock since level 35. How would happy pally tank function with these as different from sap, sheep and ice trap?

  • Lazy Slacker

    Repentance works on humanoids. Shackle on undead. Banish on demons. Wyvern sting on…no one cares. You’ll never see it since almost no one specs Survival. Much like sheep, these can be cast to keep the mobs away from the fight. Banish has the added benefit that once banished, demons dont take damage therefore the CC doesnt break.

    Seduce is a succubus skill. Only works on humanoids. Due to the fragile nature of succubi, they usually arent sent in first to do this and may end up seducing near the main fight, which is bad for a consecrate happy paladin.

    Other not so useful forms of CC is fear and turn undead. A warlock can better be utilized dotting up everything instead of chain fearing one mob. Ive used turn undead 3 times. First 2 wiped groups. Third time was in Scholo against one of Alexi Barovs guards after the floor had been cleared. Only use it if there are no nearby mobs. Feared/turned mobs seem to find the nearest friend and head straight for them.

    Viper shot is a drink served in ZG. Venoxis keeps a wetbar. :)

  • Nibuca

    Ahh also, Mind Control. I wonder if the shield will bounce on a MC baddie? If I remember correctly they’re not hit by consecrate. HMMMM!

  • Yeah, I knew I was forgetting some:

    Quick note on Survival hunters though, they’re EXTREMELY handy in heroic end-game content, nobody traps & CC’s as well, and CC is EXACTLY what you need in heroics (You have to go CC overboard really).

    Turn Undead works well in certain places as long as you pull them into a hallway or far enough back, same with fear and such. Pull them far back, and you can fear as long as you want. Your shield won’t bounce off an MCed opponent usually. Shackle is also just the same as Sheep, same with Seduce… the only CC that WON’T be broken by consecration is MC (since it’s friendly) & Banish.