This post was published long before the Mists of Pandara Expansion.
The tips and techniques explained here may be outdated.

The problem with two Kara groups

West Kingdom is growing… we’re now at the point where we can consistently field 10 players to go into Kara. In fact we even have some wiggle room so if a player isn’t able to come we can get another player in to take his/her place. But we now can’t get -everyone- into Kara. There are 4-5 players who end up sidelined because we have enough people to go into Kara.

I was tasked to figure out a way to have two functional Kara raids (enough healers, enough tanks, enough DPS). A lot of our players have 2+ alts and have said they’re interested in having their alts help to fill out a second Kara group so that everyone can go through Kara. I got everyone’s availability.. and I made my plan.. and because we have overlap in the players between the two Kara groups I couldn’t set any of the raid times to be concurrent. This means that for the players who said they’d want to come with an alt.. they’re looking at being in Kara at least four nighs a week.

I like Kara.. and I like the idea of getting Lilac into Kara (assuming she hits 70) but I’m pretty sure I don’t want to be in Kara four night a week. I like playing my alts.. or farming.. or leveling fishing.. or really I like a little bit of solo. I like my guild.. but sometimes I want to do things that don’t involve them.

When I announced that the draft of the plan was available I got similar feedback from some of the players. None of it is official.. and we haven’t talked about it since then.. but I’m not sure that we’re going to end up fielding two Kara groups at this time. We’ll see.

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4 comments to The problem with two Kara groups

  • That was a tough transition for us, and it caused one of the small waves of gquits we experienced post-TBC. There were several weeks when I was in Kara 5 nights. My pally was looking for his Ice Barrier, my mage was looking for her blessings, frostsabers and dire wolves were sleeping together.

    The hard part is usually coming up with two tanks and two healers for each group. It’s usually pretty easy to come up with DPS to go. We have one group raiding Tuesday and Thursday, led by me, and another raiding Wednesday and Sunday, led by another officer. It’s not uncommon for both of us to end up running in both groups, and we’ll often have guild PuGs to try to clear whatever we left in our 6 hours of scheduled time (per group). That’s a *lot* of Kara.

    You guys seem to do longer runs on weekends, so that might help you. You’ll waste less time setting up and filling in for missing people if you do a single 6 hour run per group.

    If you have one group that’s been running together for a while, they’ll get geared up, experienced in the fights, and develop good cohesion. If you start a second group of lesser-geared, less experienced people, they may become jealous and frustrated at what they see as slower progress (ignoring that the first group has been working for months to get to where they are). If you split up the more advanced raiders between the groups, they’ll see a stall in progress and become frustrated because they have to go back through the learning process all over again.

    We’ve tried it both ways, and some people are always unhappy either way. We’re finally to the point where we have two groups capable of experiencing the second half of Kara, but it’s been a long, tough haul. Running a casual raiding guild is tough.

    Now I have two more 70s who’ve started the Kara quests, and a 61 who’ll be there before long. *sigh*

  • My guild have one usual Kara group and have being clearing Kara completely weekly since just before Christmas. They went to two Kara groups for a week but just did not have enough people mostly healers.

    Currently our guild have about 96 members a number of them members and officers alts that they are also leveling. We have 10 Tank, yes 10. About 5 protect warriors, 2 Feral Druids and 3 Paladin Tanks. I’m the only one so far that has never seen Kara. Been kinds hard to get to Kara with that much competition for raid slots as a Tankadin as all the other tanks need gear. For the most our guild needs healers and have being recruiting all except tanks.

    They a few days ago went to 3 day sign up schedule so by signing up your locked in for all 3 raiding days. So i signed up early for a spot, if im lucky ill get to see Kara for the first time next week, but will see. 4+ nights of raiding be a bit much for me being new to raiding let alone being new and having to learn things. Will see how it goes.

  • It’s usually better to only have one run, and swap people around, until you get to the point where you can run two Kara raids simultaneously. Then you do that for a bit, and you’ll be ready to move on to 25-mans.

    Sitting out is part of raiding, but you need to come up with a strategy so that everyone gets a chance to raid.

  • I agree with Rohan…. set up some sort of rotation if at all possible.

    Two set groups leads to too many hard feelings if/when one of the groups starts to excel. (If if they’re excelling due to harder work ethic, better attendance, or other such reasons).