This post was published long before the Mists of Pandara Expansion.
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I really hope I’m doing it wrong

I copied a pre-made level 80 Paladin to the Beta PVP server. I wanted to get a feel for the “completely redesigned class”.

In the live environment, at level 70, in PVE healing gear Tatia is seeing 330 dps. (Recount of dailies on the Isle)
In the Wrath Beta, at level 80, in PVP healing gear Tatia is seeing 400 dps. (Recount of mob-kills in Howling Fjord)

I desperately hope I’m doing it wrong.

Fight sequence:
Pre-fight: Retribution Aura, Blessing of Kings(maybe I should use might), Seal of Righteousness (2 min duration)
Fight: Judgement of Wisdom (as good a choice as any)**, Holy Shock. Re-apply each as cooldowns are up.

I didn’t really find any other cool buttons to push. I was fighting single mobs.. so I didn’t use consecration (seemed wasteful of mana). I suppose I could slam them with my shield.. but that seems more of a tanking thing. Re-application of the Judgement of XXX caused ~600-1k damage. Holy Shock was hitting for 1.5k-3k.

There was still a lot of standing around, waiting for cooldowns.

I ended the fight at 98% health/mana.. but I’m also fighting level 71/72 mobs.

I mean, I don’t expect to be a machine of mad dps.. but 400 is ALOT lower than I expected.

**Judgement choice: Judgement of Wisdom returns mana. Judgement of Light returns health. Judgement of Justice prevents runners. None of them seem to add to my DPS. So for this testing, one is as good a choice as any.

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13 comments to I really hope I’m doing it wrong

  • What you need to do is use Judgement of Kicking Butt!!!

    Surprising that it’s that low.

  • Unfortunately, no, you’re not doing it wrong. Seal and Judgement damage has been significantly reduced, so shockadin’s hurting quite a bit – I think you’d probably find that if you compared 70 to 70 in the same gear, pre- and post-patch, Shockadin damage will drop quite a lot.

    In fact, I might test that out, to see.

    Sihas last blog post..Inscription Guide Revised – Levelling

  • I agree you are doing it wrong :P On live you should have Sanc Aura up if you are specced for it, Ret Aura if not. Fight should go like this:

    SoCruasade, Judge, SoR, Cons (Max Rank), Shock, Judge, SoR….. if the mob is not dead wait for Judgement cooldown or just hit HoW. Use Wings, Trinkets, and DI whenever they are up. Keep Consecrate going if you are doing mulitple mobs. I usually gather up 2-3 mobs at a time on IQD, especially the Wretched since they go down pretty fast. Remeber to Cleanse when they start doing the channeled mana drain.

    On the PTR, the fight would probably go like this (although I only specced Shockadin for like 15 min before going full on Ret). Ret aura is the only choice now:

    SoR, JoW (or JoL depending on needs), Conc, Shock, JoW, Shock, HoW
    The rest of the suggestions would still apply apply.

    How much spell damage do you have right now? I don’t know what gear you are using, but if you are Exalted with SSO on your Pally, the Archmage’s Guile with Spelldamage enchant is nice, and the Spelldamage Shield and caster neck are pretty good. Runic Spellthread for the legs and spelldamage for the gloves. I have the Khorium Ward for my spell damage set since it was easy to get and pretty cheap. I am also using the blue PvP helm and shoulders, and the S1 Ornamented gloves. The rest is quest items I think. On live I am sitting at 705 spelldamage.

    I am also specced into Sanc Aura (not improved though) and to the Int -> Spelldamage conversion talent in the Holy tree (can’t remember what that is called). I really don’t know how you would spec though in the patch. Judgements of the Wise is hard to pass up since that really lends to a lot mana efficiency, but then you would have to skip some talents in the Holy tree. I guess I will have to go to wowhead and play with talent calc :D

    Let me know if that helped you out. I know that tends to work pretty well for me, but there maybe be an even better sequence I haven’t thought of.

    Ryukyus last blog post..Gotta get me some Mounts!

  • Oh yeah, on live I am usually hanging around 600-650dps on non Undead/Demons, up to 800-850dps on Undead/Demons. In Super Saiyan Mode (Wings, DI, Trinkets) I can usually hit around 950-1050dps if everything goes well.

    Just put that in there for comparative purposes. Dps is from DamageMeter.

    Ryukyus last blog post..Gotta get me some Mounts!

  • khassad

    I am in EU-beta with my Holy Paladin lvl 70, but i cannot create a premade lvl 80 paladin. I am really concerned about the holy paladin development status. Do you remember how is the manapool at lvl 80? Typical FL and HL crit?
    Thanks in advance!! :)

  • This is where allot of the new mechanics or changes takes some figuring out or getting used to leveling up in whichever spec you play the most. I really can’t speak on playing as Holy for obvious reasons.

    You may just have to test stuff out as it relates to playing as a Holy or DPSing which questing and such. As Shia has said above seals and judgement have been through lots of nerfs and changes. So their damage has been reduced and much so since I leveled half way to 80.

    However that said Seal of Righteousness for a Protec does very little since we have very little SP and SoR benefits from SP more than AP. Holy should have much more and should benefit from SP they have it if anything as well as the judgements but those have being nerfed as well.

  • BitterCupOJoe

    A few things:

    A ret/holy hybrid is doing far better healing up through 5 mans and far better damage than a pure holy build. They’ve said they’ll address this, but it’s very possible that they’ll further delineate them, i.e., they’ll make the hybrid be bad at both. As it stands now, even people with holy gear have found they’re usually better off leveling with most of their points in ret, because they’re usually good enough to heal 5 mans.

    Second, the shield slam is actually a really solid damage bonus for everyone that’s using a shield, and it scales on both AP and spellpower, so it’s worth working in there.

    Third, consecrate is a little wasteful, but with seal of wisdom doing damage, the waste isn’t nearly as noticeable. Try working it in and mostly relying on SoW as your go to seal and see if that helps. Also, you can try throwing seal of light on an enemy, then popping Divine Plea (think that’s the name of it, 25% mana over 10 seconds) and getting your mana back that way.

    It’s all still shaking out, but as it stands right now, there’s very little reason to level as holy, and that’s coming from someone that was holy from 60-70 in BC. Even if you’re planning to duo up with someone, Sheath of Light and Judgments of the Wise mean that you’ll have both the spellpower and the mana return to make ret viable as a small group healer, which is all you’ll need to 70. There’s very little to recommend straight holy before 80 past Holy Shock now, and even that’s debatable.

  • Nibuca

    @Leiandra
    Agreed. That’s why I’m hoping I’m doing it wrong. Further tests with my copied over 70 give me a little bit of hope.. but I’m not done testing yet.

    @Siha
    I’m sad to see that Shockadin may be dead. I don’t actually want to go into 5-mans/raids as a holy DPS build.. I just want to have sufficient DPS to do dailies, gather mats.

    @Ryukyu
    The problem there is that I’m not spec’d Ret. My intention is to find a spec/attack method that allows me to stay Holy and still be able to do things like Dailies. If Ret can heal a 5-man adequately then Holy should be able to DPS their dailies.. adequately. 400 is not adequate.

    @khassad
    I’ll look at that tonight. Take it with a grain of salt though. The level 80 toons start off with PVP gear. So I expect the health pool to be inflated and the spellpower/mana pool to be deflated.

    @Galoheart
    Good to know. I think I’ll fiddle with it some more.

    @BitterCupOJoe
    I would prefer to level Holy/Ret if possible. I agree that during leveling I don’t see any reason to spec Holy past Holy Shock. I’m just looking ahead to the “new” level cap. I still want to be able to do dailies.. and if holy dps is gimped as much as it was in my test.. that’s going to be very painful.

  • It was my understanding from a friend (I don’t play a Paladin myself) that Paladin damage mechanics in LK have completely change, and now depend more on Strength.

    So in essence, you should change your gear to something with more strength and then you should be seeing higher DPS numbers.

    That said, I have to agree with previous comments (have had experience leveling a holy priest, which is a similar experience) – don’t expect high DPS from a Holy build. You need to go Ret or Prot to see some nice DPS numbers.

    Solidstates last blog post..WoW Endgame and The Journey

  • Nibuca

    I haven’t really tested yet.. but supposedly Seal of Blood/Martyr and SoVengeance/??? scale with strength and AP while Seal of Righteousness scales with Spellpower.

    @solidstate
    I don’t want to be holy dps in a raid. I want to do adequete dps (without changing gear/respecing) in order to do my dailies.

    Blizz combined healing and spellpower.. it seems silly that I’d still have to collect a separate set of gear just to be able to do day-to-day grinding.

  • @ Nibuca

    I think I may have given you the wrong impression on the build I was using. I was specced Shockadin, which is 40/0/21. The majority of the points are in Holy, though I tended to pick the talents that would help me the most solo. There is quite a bit of flexibility in that build type though, so its a kind of tailor to fit if you will. In a 40/0/21 spec, you will have more then enough healing talents to heal 5-mans, and plenty of DPS for dailies. The beauty of the spec is that it is more mana efficient then your hypical Holy/Prot build when you are DPSing, while providing 10% extra Holy Damage, faster Judgements, increased damage against against certain mob types, faster movement speed, and you can spec for Vindication which can really cut down on how fast you kill mobs, although it is not a direct DPS increase.

    Key talents are:
    Divine Int
    Imp SoR
    Spirtual Focus
    Healing Light (I think thats the name)
    Divine Illumination
    Divine Favor
    Holy Power
    Holy Shock
    And that 35 point talent that converts int to spell damage (can’t recall the name)

    In the Ret Tree key talents are:
    Benediction
    Imp Judgement
    Imp SotC
    Sanc Aura

    That leaves a lot points to put where you feel you would see the most benefit.

    You really would not need a new set of gear, especially if you have some really nice healing gear already. I swap my neck, cloak, legs, and rings to go from Holy dps to healing. All of those pieces are pure spell damage. Also my sword, Archmage’s Guile, has the 40 spell damage enchant on it, I could swap that out with Kiru’s Presence (sp? right name?) and get the healing enchant on it to boost my healing just a bit more. Even if I did that, I would still only be swapping 6 pieces of gear around, and again you probably have way better gear then I do, so that may not even be necessary. My spell damage is sitting at 705 with my spell damage gear on, so if you are at that or higher, you should be able to easily hit the same damage numbers that I do without the need to regear.

    Of course if you already knew everything I am telling you, then I obviously don’t understand the issue. If that be the case I apologize in advance. If not, then I am glad to be of service.

    Ryukyus last blog post..Gotta get me some Mounts!

  • “without changing gear”

    Well, there’s the rub, ain’t it? As a holy priest, after the patch, my healing set should be good enough for doing dailies.

    However, from what I heard, *by design*, the same cannot be said of Paladins – you need Strength. Again, this is not something I’ve read directly so I could be wrong – hard enough to keep updated with mage, priest, hunter and druid changes… ;)

    Solidstates last blog post..WoW Endgame and The Journey

  • From what I understand, you will need strength if you are speccing Ret or Prot. In Ret spec there is a talent that will convert 30% of your AP to Spellpower. Pallies get 2.3 AP per point of strength if they have the Divine Strength talent. Prot pallies need strength for shield block and AP. They do not benefit from AP->Spellpower conversion. However, now that AP is being added to spell calculations, AP, and therefore strength, will increase their threat output. Holy paladins do not benefit from strength at all, unless they have an upcoming Mr/Ms Universe competition they would like to attend.

    Ryukyus last blog post..Gotta get me some Mounts!