This post was published long before the Mists of Pandara Expansion.
The tips and techniques explained here may be outdated.

Drama Llama is hungry

Drama LlamaThe drama llama still has no power over me.. but unrelated to the previous potential source of drama (Holierthanthou not getting loot) a new and special form of drama reared it head.. and then was .. headded-off.

Three members were unhappy and left the guild. We (the guild and Grand Council) had -no- idea they were unhappy until they left. We (mostly the guild master) continued to talk with them after they left.. and the very next day they rejoined the guild. We (the guild and the Grand Council) are now aware of some issues we weren’t aware of and we’re trying to make changes to prevent this from happening again.

Losing good players from your guild for asinine reasons is .. Asinine.

The first lesson I hope you, my readers can take away from this is:
If you’re in a good guild and your having problems with the guild, with the leadership, with the culture, with the policies/rules, with specific individuals within the guild.. and it’s bad enough that you’re considering leaving the guild.. talk to the guild leadership. Chances are pretty good that their unaware of this thing that’s annoying you. The guild leadership can only fix things they know about. If you’ve told the leadership.. and they’ve done nothing to fix it .. -then- leave. But just leaving because they don’t fix something they don’t know about.. is asinine.

The second lesson I hope you, my readers, can take away from this is:
If you’re the group leadership, talk to your guild membership. Find out what’s bothering them. If everything seems to be skimming along swimmingly there’s probably something you’re unaware of. Also, be prepared to address issues. Being told that “Player X is annoying and takes over raids” isn’t useful if you don’t then go on to talk with Player X to make him/her aware that his actions in the raid are being perceived as “taking over” the raid.

Also, if you have a good guild.. and people are leaving.. find out why. Losing good players from a good guild for asinine reasons is .. Asinine.

The lesson I take away from this is that -I- need to talk less.
One of the problems that was mentioned is that I “treat them like children”. I have never intentionally treated someone in the guild like a child. This means that some action I take is being interpreted as me being “condescending”. So viola.. if I’m not talking then I’m not condescending.

Similar Posts:

7 comments to Drama Llama is hungry

  • Yes, but then if you’re not talking you’re also not leading. Although talking less may be a valid response. I don’t know, I’m not in your guild. But there seems to be two approaches to this (well, 3 if you count yours, but sounds kind of childish as I’m sure some of your complaints are).

    1) You can’t please all the people all the time. Maybe you aren’t really condescending, but as a woman (yep, totally double standard but it’s the facts of life) maybe some of the raiders have an issue with a woman leader, and their voice sounds like their mom’s. I heard your podcast and watched the Grid + Clique video, and although it’s been awhile since I’ve heard them.. well.. you just sounded well informed. That may come off as condescending to some people.

    2) Sometimes when leading a raid, I ask the raid what they want to do or what they think went wrong. In my view, it seems to put us at more level ground, and hopefully they’ll think to come to me with suggestions to better the guild/runs. I’ve had officers and Guild Leaders that are tyrants… I don’t enjoy that even when they do get the job done.

    You’d probably know best since you’re there… but would hope it wouldn’t mean you have to be Nibuca the Mute Leader.

  • Nibuca

    *sigh* Ok, you’re right.. “I just won’t talk” is a petty response.

    I just don’t know what to do. -I- have never felt that I’ve talked down to anyone.. and no one has ever told me I’m talking down to them.. so I really don’t know what it is that I’m doing that is causing them to have this response.

    I’m just at a loss. If I keep on with business as usual then they are going to continue to perceive that I treat them as children. So I can’t keep on with business as usual. The only thing I can do is keep in mind this perception and do my best to work around it. But frankly, talking less sound like less work… and seems like it’d have a higher degree of success.

  • I second the suggestion made about asking what they want to do or what went wrong. This may vary according to your leadership styles, but I don’t believe a raid should be about 24 people doing exactly what the raid leader says. The strategy should ultimately be decided on by the raid leader and officers, but the rest of the raid should be able to provide feedback which sometimes can be surprisingly helpful.

    This gets people more involved in the raid and makes them feel like they are contributing as opposed to simply following arcane orders given by “their superiors”. I personally also feel that their performance will improve once they get involved in understanding the mechanics behind various strategies rather than robotically following prescribed instructions.

    It’s a bit sneaky, but rather than telling people what to do, a good leader asks people in such a way that they think its their own idea and thus they are less likely to complain about it.

    pockies last blog post..(She says) Wow Gold – The first 100g

  • ” -I- have never felt that I’ve talked down to anyone.. and no one has ever told me I’m talking down to them.. ”

    Sometimes information is best gathered via an indirect source. My experiences as a guild leader has taught me that people don’t generally throw their criticism directly in your face but will happily tell someone who they think is ‘more on their level’.

    Use an intermediate to find out this kind of information… keep talking to people and eventually you’ll find the root cause.

    Our own behaviour is often hidden from us and it takes clear and concise information to see how our behaviour can affect other people and how we can modify our behaviour if needed.

    Keep up the dialog and you’ll figure it out.

    It is however a fact that a woman leadership is distinctly different from a man’s. It’s a different approach… a different culture and especially as a young male it can be difficult to deal with female leaders because dealing with females in general is hard enough for them let alone a leader-type.

    These kinds of drama seem intrinsic to raiding guilds though… don’t see it too much elsewhere.

    Captain The Firsts last blog post.."going down" smoothly

  • GoW

    I agree with Lei. Even if you’re awesome, and I’m sure you are, you just can’t make everyone like you with the same presentation. And reality being what it is, you can’t give multiple presentations at the same time. This gets in my way all the time. Lousy reality.

    Sometimes people aren’t going to respond well to your style, and sometimes this is going to happen with even good people. Don’t sweat it. If your guild is healthy, if your friends in the guild are picking up what you’re puttin’ down, then don’t worry. They’re grateful that you’re doing the work that you’re doing.

  • Both commenters here have it spot on. Who knew a degree in pyschology would come in handy while gaming?

    People are people though, the internet has only proven to exacerbate excentricities (love the alliteration there sorry, big words aside)… that is to say, when people become “faceless” they tend to be freer in their criticism. Keep that in mind.

    Think of group meetings or projects. Chances are you’ve had some asshats in groups in RL along the way. How did you survive/adapt then? Have you ever ecnountered such cricitcism *outside* the game? How do you try to *not* talk down to people in RL…

  • I have never seen myself as condescending, impatient, or arrogant, but just last week, my wife pointed out that my behavior during a dance lesson was just that. In my mind, I was just trying to speed up the process of understanding and didn’t need the whole thing explained, just one part.

    When the instructor started from the beginning, I showed all the the aforementioned attributes in trying to get her to the point where I didn’t understand.

    I saw it as efficient.

    My wife saw it as rude.

    I’m not saying that you have a perception issue because I don’t even know you. I do know that my motives were clear in my own mind, and I was oblivious to how my actions might be perceived by the people around me.

    Oh….and some people just have thin skin…lol.


    Daxenoss last blog post..VA update